They were supposed to rip out the plywood, put down Hardie board and then tile. But they said the plywood was glued down to the subfloor and thought tearing it up would cause damage to the subfloor. So instead they left the plywood. And they did use thinset between plywood and hardie back and also between hardie back and tile.
I have two questions… is the way this was installed ok? Also is the weight of this ok? I know that might sound a little crazy, but I always get nervous about the structure of homes. Can my subfloor handle the weight of plywood, hardie back and tile on top of it?
Uh oh… I spoke too soon. In the last question I asked I explained how the floors are higher than they used to be. These are metal doors. But even if they could that would cause a problem with the weather stripping being able to meet the threshold.
Any suggestions on how to fix this? My guess is that there is a way and you can raise the height of the threshold. Maybe someone in the community has a better answer? Hi, I removed the carpet of my master bedroom and cure the cracks on the floor with two layers of RedGard. I was going to do it with siroco over the base floor. But you said that it is not a good idea. What is the best way to do it then?
I think the best way would be with a self-leveling cement. I want to eliminate the issue where moisture destroys the particle board that normally butts up against the entry door. The height will be different but I can add a thin luan sheet in-between the 2 to make up the difference. Do I need to use any thin set morter for the hardi if I intend to have click vinyl plank installed as the finished layer on top?
I would use the cement special screws to attach the hardi to the plywood. Thanks Ron. The other thing is that a little mortar underneath may make the heights work out perfectly. Please explain WHY is thinset necessary? Why are screws alone not adequate? What is it about backer board that necessitates thinset as an additional agent in its installation?
I am not asking to be a jerk, it just does not make sense to me. Seven years ago I did a large format tile project sq ft using screws only, as of today it still going strong, no cracks, no anything? What benefit or capability does thinset add that without it the installation is compromised?
It takes away movement. Screws or nails hold the backer down and thinset holds it up. Once dry, it takes away any gaps and any further movement in the backer board. I do not trust any that the thinset will hold the boards down long term. I am tiling over existing tile, using mapei eco prom grip.
Should I use self leveling cement instead. If so, which brand do you recommend? Foam board panels, like Wedi board or GoBoard, come in a variety of sizes and have a procedure for installing over cement.
Additionally, self-leveling underlayment works fine and would give a flat floor, if done correctly. The easiest solution, as long as the heights will match up, would be to use an uncoupling membrane like Ditra or Ditra XL.
My kitchen tiles became loose one by one. I lift the wonder-board and I see a straight crack. What could be the reason? So, that tells me that there is no mortar underneath the cement board which could be the cause of your loose tile issue.
If you want to use tap cons and install them per the fastener schedule then maybe that will work. Great forum thanks a lot. I am getting ready to install tile in a small upstairs bathroom. I first poured self leveling concrete to make up for a substantial slope, I then cut Hardi backer which I will install with thin set underneath and finally screw down the Hardi backer through the self leveling concrete and into the plywood sub floor.
Does this seem like an ok idea or do I need to scrap the Hardi backer for a different product over the floor leveler? Thanks a lot, Jon. First thing, is I would check if you installed the correct leveler. There are only certain levelers that are approved for going over wood substrates and one of those types would need to be installed.
Alternatively, some levelers require metal lath to be installed over a wood subfloor prior to installing the leveler. If you wanted to install cement board then that should have been installed first thing and directly over the wood subfloor.
I am in the process of installing a new ceramic tile floor over hydronic viega radiant heat. I will use the viega climate panel, which the pex tubing snaps into. The viega installation instructions say to glue and screw the backer hardie board down. Your suggestion is to use thinset and screws.
What method should be used and if it is glue, what type? Or if thinset, what type issued over the pex tubing? Thanks for any information. Can you put thinset mortar on OSB subfloor? This is not advantech OSB just the Lowes cheap stuff. It depends on what you are installing. If you are installing cement board or an uncoupling membrane then, yes, you would thinset those down and sometimes to OSB.
What is it that you want to stick to the OSB with the thinset? Appreciate this page. I have 1 inch thick by 4 inch wide pine boards, with no subfloor underneath. The boards fasten right to the beams underneath, thus removing them is not really an option I believe. They are solid as only about 10 years old, but not tongue and groove so not super tight in all spots.
I have a feeling I need to use plywood above before I put down thinset and backer board but want to confirm that. I understand that the backer board does not add structural strength, but do I really need that if the floor itself is strong? My home has OSB as a subfloor like alot of homes now. Is it safe to say that I can treat it like a plywood subfloor and place mortar, cement board, mortar then tile or is it not even worth doing with having OSB? At least not yet. The other advantage of this is that it keeps the overall height of the floor down.
Cement board is a great way of going over OSB and the way that you outlined should work perfectly. Additionally, it helps if you can scrape, or sand, the surface to promote adhesion. If anything happens then the particle board will swell and ruin the tile.
You can rent a toe kick saw if you need to get under the cabinets. Link to instagram video about removing vinyl subfloor. You can also install backer board, like you mentioned, but then the floor height is going to be a lot higher than it currently is and you could have issues with door heights, etc. Thank you for a great forum. I am replacing 20 year old 8X8 ceramic tiles in our 80 sqft kitchen installed on gypsum. When I removed the old tiles and gypsum, OSB board revealed random spots of dried mold especially under the refrigerator.
Apparently the refrigerator had small leaks over the years but the compressor heat evaporated the water while causing minor mold therefore we did not have any extensive smell of the mold. Since I had a hip fracture 2 years ago, doing floor work was extremely difficult and expensive especially thin-setting multiple times between layers of the underlayments. I experimented laying DITRA first under the sink cabinet 4 sqft area and realized that 80 sqft will be a huge pain. However, my enthusiasm has been curbed when I read Hardibacker installation instructions and your recommendations that I still need to have thinset under the cement board.
That means I am back to where I am with thinset mess and pain and more expense. Second question is, Hardibacker is not waterproof unless I use Hardibacker Hydrodefense for Walls. Can I use Hardibacker Hydrodefense for floors? For me waterproofing and protecting 20 year old OSB from mold is more important.
Really appreciate your advice. It sounds like you need to come up 1 inch with the underlayment. I think the best way to go would be to add plywood over the floor as it is right now. You would have to check with the manufacturer to see if mortar underneath Hardibacker is necessary. I know Hardibacker wants mortar underneath but they are also assuming that you will be installing tile with a mortar adhesive.
You can waterproof over the Hardibacker on a floor if you want. Also, on one side of the tub against the wall they installed green board. At the back of the tub there is the Hardibacker where it joins into the open shower. I had thought to put Redguard over that section which will not receive a lot of water.
Am I cool? Or should I demand it be cut to the height of the tile installation and hardibacker installed. The shower is separate from the tub. Either thickness of Hardibacker works just fine over a floor. IUsing thinset under cement board depends on your subfloor.
Over plywood I agree.. They spray a wax waterproofing on the floor. Thinset will not bond to it. Most new houses have advantic in them. You have to sand the whole floor down..
It usually dry before that and you can tell by the color change of the mortar. We put the cement board smooth side out, because for reason reason I had it in my head that thin-set was a mastic and not mortar.
Am I doomed if I use thin-set on the smooth side? I have a laundry room that had a laminate sheet flooring in it. I removed the laminate to find they had put down 3 layers of it glued in various places. It all looks to be the same so I guess it was done at the same time. I finally got this up and find the glue is not coming up. Can I use a cement board to give me a clean level surface to lay my tile on?
However, if you have a wood subfloor then you may not be down as far as you need to be. Typically, the flooring is over an underlayment that is on top of the subfloor. That underlayment should come out as well.
It is on a concrete floor. As I said I am down to just the remaining glue. It is hard and not coming up. I talked with a contractor and he said we could do the backer board or a leveling compound. Not sure what to do as I now have a cement floor with the glue remanence on it. You could use a foam board like Wedi or a leveling compound.
The best way to get rid of the glue is to grind it off with an electric grinder and a diamond cup wheel. Alternatively, you could prime over it with a product like Mapei Eco Prim Grip and then use a leveler or even adhere tile directly to that. I hope I have enough information to make an answer possible. We are renovating the mudroom and lav of our home.
I have a contractor, but was expecting to lay tile ourselves. The contractor has removed the previous tiles, which have been cracking. If I understand correctly, they had been set over vinyl flooring with no cement board. In general, though, I trust him. Do I need to find another flooring material? Should I limit myself to significantly smaller, or even mosaic, tiles? They are trying to tell you the best way to install them.
What about door swings? Bluestone is very thick and heavy, probably has some variance in the thickness of the product, and is going to be difficult to cut and install. If you do decide to move forward with the bluestone installation, I would recommend getting a professional installer. Hi there! Similar to regular drywall all of your in-plane joints must be taped. To do this you just use regular thinset and alkali-resistant fiberglass mesh tape.
Make sure it is alkali-resistant because your thinset contains alkali which will gradually erode regular tape thus defeating the purpose. There are two ways to address the corners. The industry standard, and the way you should do it, is to tape and mud the corner joint as well. Most backerboard manufacturers recommend this, as do the handbook standards.
With the corners I fill the gap with silicone. I do this to allow the different planes of the walls to move in different directions, which they will do whether you like it or not. Allowing this movement in the substrate compensates for excess stress in certain applications. This is something that I do, it is not industry standard and you will likely not find anyone else recommending doing this. Fill all the gaps in your seams with thinset you left gaps there, right?
Then go over the tape with more thinset to smooth everything out. This will lock everything together and give you a continuous, solid substrate for your tile. When properly installed cement backerboards will create a rock solid, extremely durable substrate for your tile installation.
Taking time and care to solidify what is behind or beneath your tile is the only way to guarantee a lasting installation. Your tile is only as durable as what it is installed upon. As always if you have any questions at all please feel free to leave a comment.
Hardiebacker Website. Durock Website. I now have manuals describing the complete process for you from bare wall studs all the way up to a completely waterproof shower substrate for your tile. If you are tiling your walls and floor you can find that one here: Waterproof shower floor and wall manual. If you have a tub or pre-formed shower base and are only tiling the walls you can find that one here: Waterproof shower walls manual. Notify me of follow-up comments by email.
Notify me of new posts by email. What is the best method of installing the backer board to insure success? My general rule is that if a topical membrane is being used redgard or kerdi, etc. Cement board will wick water. With a traditional system it may wick water from the top mud deck if embedded. This is all new plumbing on elevated floor in my basement. You NEED to add at least one additional stud between those.
If you mean joists under the elevated floor you need to add at least one additional joist between those two. Should I throw a double layer of hardy-board on one side to fill the gap?
Aahhh, okay. What type of shower pan are you using? Is it one that will be tiled, or is it a prefab acrylic type pan? The tile will more than cover that, you just need to make sure that whatever waterproofing method you use is wrapped across that gap and bonded to the face of lip. You want to make sure that any water running down the wall behind the tile ends up in the base and into the drain rather than between the shower base and wall.
So do I fill that gap with thin set down over the lip? Or how do I create a smooth surface for my tile to meet the tub? The tile just hangs over that. If you fill it with thinset or anything it will end up cracking out and creating more issues.
Leaving a gap in the in-plane joints allows thinset to get in between them in order to create a monolithic structure. Leaving the gap at changes of plane allows for expansion due to swelling rather than movement due to the framing on which it is attached. In the instances where there is space, it seems that the thinset usually fills it up regardless.
All of these materials have varying expansion coefficients and would surely have some differential movement between each other? Is it minimal as to not cause concern?
On another note, how would you recommend doing backerboard walls to drywall ceiling transitions? Leave them floating or tape them? Welcome to the club! Overinformation junkies anonymous meets on tuesdays at…. IF you fill this with thinset, the swelling will lead to cracking, which leads to larger movement. I leave my walls floating at the ceiling and fill with silicone after tile. When I prep I isolate separate planes as much as I can unless they are tiled to one-another, then I tie them together as much as I can.
Use only cement board screws and alkali-resistant cement board joint tape. Standard screws and drywall joint tape will corrode or deteriorate from contact with cement board. Continue installing sheets to cover the entire area. Mix fresh mortar only as it's needed to prevent it from drying before you can use it up. Apply cement board joint tape to all of the joints between sheets, adhering the tape with its self-adhesive backing.
Mix more thin-set mortar and, using a drywall knife, cover the taped joints with a thin layer, much as you would do when mudding drywall joints. Tool the mortar with the knife so the tape is covered and the joints are flat and smooth.
Allow the mortar to cure completely, following the manufacturer's recommended drying time. Installing cement board on countertops is very similar to the process used on floors, but countertops usually need an additional strip of cement board along the exposed edge of the countertop. This creates the built-up edge for securing bull-nose or other forms of edge tile. Cement board on walls also uses the same techniques, but in this case, there is no layer of mortar behind the cement board as it is screwed directly into the wall studs.
Consult the cement board manufacturer for recommendations on using a moisture barrier between the board and the wall studs. This may be thick plastic sheeting or another type of water-resistant membrane. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Use precise geolocation data. Select personalised content. Create a personalised content profile. Measure ad performance.
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